Dr. Todd Grande Tackles the Incel Phenomenon--How Well Did he Do?

Don’t attempt to understand this man. Just hate him. It’s popular. (Image from logansportmemorial.org)

There has been a growth over the past few years in legitimate, value-neutral attempts to understand the serious problem afflicting a significant proportion of (mostly, but not entirely) men who have come to call themselves “incels.” This term started as a non-judgemental conflation of “involuntary celibacy” to describe the basic affliction/situation experienced by these men, but has since been morphed into a sort of slur by the Regressive Left and even certain elements outside that mindset to deride unattractive men. As a casual search for the term on Google will show, the level of hate pushed towards such men based on a highly exaggerated connection to several loud troublemakers among them who have hi-jacked the term, and a few of their number committing actual acts of violence due to a stated hatred of women, saturate the Internet like sugar in a glass of Pepsi.

In short, and to put the term in an entirely clinical context with no moral value judgment of any sort, it describes a portion of the population, most of them heterosexual men, who can best be described as having low natural attraction to the opposite sex. Thus, women are very rarely attracted to them, and almost never very strongly on the rare occasions it does occur; and women do not seem able to fall in love with or develop deep romantic feelings for such men. Consequently, these men are unable to develop the confidence, social skills, or personality traits conducive to finding a partner, thus worsening the problem even further. And worsening it further still, I believe, is the nature of capitalist society and the specific type of way men are expected to achieve status and “value” within it.

In other words, it’s a complex phenomenon that likely has a significant but unknown physical component not currently identifiable by science that is exacerbated by other factors. Some of these additional factors are mental & social issues that come about due to the toll this takes on those afflicted. Others are a variety of external factors that are connected to how our current market-driven society functions and what it compels heterosexual women to find attractive or “high value” in a man.

This leads to incels developing sometimes serious issues with jealousy towards men with average to high natural attraction and, most infamously, negative attitudes towards women who cannot find them attractive, a matter exacerbated by the hostile rather than sympathetic reactions made against such men that are popularized by contemporary liberal thinking. Traditional conservatism is often no more sympathetic or willing to try an objective understanding, since that school of thought likewise places much value on men who can attract women and thus perpetuate the expected nuclear family model with the man as the “head” of the family etc.

A small number of male incels will take this jealousy and hatred too far and will become outright misogynists. A far smaller number than that will snap under pressure and either plan or even carry out acts of violence due to the bitterness and desire for revenge that overwhelms them. The response by the often predominantly liberal media, of course, is a quickness to cast further aspersions on the group as a whole rather than trying to gain an objective understanding of this phenomenon. As a result, there is currently scant help offered to men afflicted with this low natural attraction to help them manage the situation without suffering severe mental issues, let alone keeping the few who truly go off the deep end away from that precipice.

In fact, one could argue that the constant attacks upon and demonetization of such men, and the myriad efforts in the media to pin the actions of the worst few and a loud sub-set on the entire group, is part of a deliberate effort to cause incels to internalize that image and play right into the hands of those who hate them. Never was that more evident than the way the liberal media strongly —  and thankfully without success —  attempted to bait such behavior from incels with its reaction to the highly successful Joker film a few years back.

As Jonas Barnes noted in his 2019 review of the film linked above:

At the end of the day, “Joker” was a cautionary tale of what can happen if we push people too far that are already hanging on by a thread. It is a reflection of how we already treat the mentally ill and impoverished in our current society. It’s a film that makes US look at OURSELVES and how WE treat the PEOPLE we pass who are SUFFERING every day. But saying that “Joker” was a dark, haunting, beautiful dissection of extreme classism & how we look at the mentally ill wouldn’t get you as many clicks as telling people that “it’s a problematic film that could inspire incels to shoot up a theater”, now would it?

The attempt to connect incels as a group to violence and misogynistic hatred by exaggerating the words and actions of a tiny vocal segment of disturbed men that have claimed the name has been common in the liberal-dominated media of the past several years. The pundits who write this material seem determined to try to push as many such men into violent behavior as possible to justify their rants.

These reactions and obsessive focus on the worst few among this demographic also cruelly ignores the fact that most incels who go over the edge simply kill themselves rather than others. Those who do not often live quietly in mental anguish. Some do indeed succumb to the self-destructive path towards hatred; when enough people hate you, it can be all too tempting to vent by turning around and hating them back, thus leading to a negative self-perpetuating cycle. The mainstream liberal proponents of identity politics who are so quick to spread hatred against unattractive men are perfect examples of that, and are utter hypocrites for deriding members of a demographic who are displaying the mirror image of their own attitude.

The behavior of the loud group of incels who populated the infamous and oft-reported sub-Reddit was wrong, but what is often not mentioned in the liberal press is the extreme hatred that one found spewed at men by liberals of both genders on Tumblr since the 2000s —  and all too often openly hurled at men all over social media dominated by the Regressive Left throughout the past decade.

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I have experienced this phenomenon on a personal level, so I seek to understand it better, learn to accept it & manage it, to stay mentally healthy, find positive alternatives to the romantic love that I am likely never to find, and to keep my soul free from any temptation towards hatred. It is nothing to be ashamed of and you can still make many positive contributions to society. You can also seek alternate ways of gaining self-esteem, and it’s important to encourage objective research on the topic and oppose the shaming of incels (including using the term as a slur).

Forms of self-improvement can be beneficial even though it will not make you an “alpha” male, since that involves some innate attributes that one cannot learn. Importantly, you can train yourself not to give into the temptation to simp in order to gain the affection of women; this will not make you more attractive (quite the contrary!). If you do this the good women will reject you politely, while the bad eggs among them may try to take advantage of you (and this can increase your risk of developing varying degrees of hatred towards women as a group). We should all keep in mind that the core cause of this affliction may be nobody’s fault, neither the men who suffer from it nor the women who reject them — even if both may develop character traits that worsen the problem along the way.

So, What’s My Verdict on Dr. Grande’s Attempt to Tackle the Issue?

As a fan of psychologist Dr. Todd Grande’s often thoughtful videos that analyze various subjects on his YouTube channel, I watched his take on this — specifically in connection to the tragic and unsettling story of incel Tres Genco — to see what he had to say on the topic.

First, watch his video. It’s worth the time!

After listening to Dr. Grande’s analysis of both Genco’s situation and the incel phenomenon in general, below is an updated version of the comment I left for him on his channel based on how well I think he did.

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This is what I think, Dr. Grande, having studied this phenomenon long and hard due to personally experiencing it. This will be lengthy, but please bear with me.

You did a laudable job, save for a few things I would like to mention.

We do not yet fully understand what causes such low attraction in some men, but I disagree with your contention that it has nothing to do with society at large and that it’s wrong to hold society accountable in any way; or that doing so constitutes passing the buck of responsibility to where it does not belong.

Firstly, you sort of inadvertently made the above point of mine when you mentioned the economic nature of society that certainly contributes to low attractiveness in certain men. Many people in general will be born with a skill set that is simply not lucrative under a market-based economy like capitalism. It’s difficult to find a high-paying job under any circumstances these days, so many men are going to be “low status” in terms of earning power. The fact that the capitalist system (like other class-divided societies before it) has socially hard-wired women into trending towards hypergamy is a major factor in this debacle, and we need to own up to that fact. Things could be markedly different for both men and women in a more egalitarian economic system, but that is a whole other topic unto itself.

Nevertheless, the above matter is a symptom of capitalism, not necessarily on the man himself, as he may not find a high-paying job no matter how hard he tries, especially if he doesn’t know the right people and lacks skills that tend to make good money on the job market even though he may be making good contributions to society (he simply isn’t being paid well for it).

But in short, I agree that economic status is definitely a factor, though we need to keep in mind that men who have naturally high levels of attraction can often overcome this deficit. This is because women will consider these men “high status” simply because so many other women want them, and their friends would greatly approve of they’re dating a man that was so naturally desirable — social capital is as desirous as the financial version. Such a high level of natural attraction can thus give a man of low income an artificially high perception of “value.”

Also, a man with high levels of attraction will obviously develop confidence and good social skills as a result of many positive interactions with women, so that will help things along despite his having a skill set that does not usually earn good money.

Secondly, let us address the other enormous elephant in the room that you neglected to mention regarding society: how women and men alike tend to react to men who have low attractiveness and are thus rarely able to find sexual partners, let alone long-term romantic relationships.

Instead of showing sympathy and understanding, and making objective efforts to understand this phenomenon from a scientific viewpoint (as you are at least attempting here), they openly hold incels in contempt. And due to the popularization of overtly expressed misandry against men in all forms of media and the entertainment industry over the past 10 years, courtesy of the rise of Regressive Left identity politics, women are conditioned to feel entitled and to react to unattractive men with hostility even if they approach them politely (albeit perhaps awkwardly). Further, liberal men are encouraged to enable and abet this at every opportunity.

This doesn’t justify hatred, let alone violence, against women, of course. But it is going to increase levels of resentment in such men towards the opposite gender, and result in unsavory venting throughout various online spaces that may allow it. And this particular factor in the phenomenon is entirely on society. It’s certainly not the underlying cause of the problem, but it does make it worse, and considerably so in some instances.

You need only look to many of the comments for your video to see the above played out. Yes, Tres had to be stopped before he could have a chance to go through with those plans. But note how so many of your commenters express simple thankfulness that Tres was preemptively dealt with instead of any interest in understanding what may have driven him to such behavior, or any attempt to understand what causes some men to have such low levels of natural attraction in the first place.

That too is on society, and has become worse over the past decade for the reasons I mentioned above. These men as a group, not just the few among them who turn to violence, are receiving little help or understanding from society, and a dearth of compassion. They are only shown contempt. What type of behavior do you expect from such people? Are you surprised that a few go over the edge? That in no way justifies them doing such things, but society needs to make value-free help available and stop being the instigator of such behavior.

Now, there is another thing you didn’t tackle that should be mentioned here to understand what incels go through, because it’s very important. They not only appear to almost entirely lack the ability to find sexual partners, but women cannot seem to fall in love with them, at least not strongly in a way that has lasting power or can weather any competition that may come along.

This means that they are denied the type of love and emotional fulfillment that so many of us take for granted, including even most men with merely average levels of attraction. This is no small thing, and with often having to resort to escorts and “sugar babies” for sex and the “girlfriend experience” being the closest thing you can get to a relationship, you can see why such men become so troubled and disheartened. Next, consider that so many people of certain political leanings do not even want incels to have access to ladies willing to offer sex or a “girlfriend experience” for money. Hence, you cannot argue that societal attitudes and the position that capitalism puts all of us in does not contribute to this problem.

In regards to personality factors, we both noted that this definitely plays a role, but let’s not forget nor ignore this other elephant in the room: Many men of truly awful character, including murderers, serial killers, sociopaths, and simply major assholes are often very attractive to women. Granted, not many incels would ever win a personality contest, but in many cases their quirks tend to be more annoying than threatening or truly indicative of bad character. And the “creepiness” attributed to many of them are often a coded way of saying they were not attractive, and perhaps a bit awkward in their approach due to lack of social skills, rather than exhibiting truly unsettling behavior patterns (yes, there are truly creepy stalker-ish types among them, but I’m talking about the majority here).

Yet women find these truly awful men more attractive and “high value” than the typical incel. Imagine how this makes such men feel, and why so many of them can be overcome by bitterness and jealousy when this situation is coupled by a lack of societal support, let alone even a modicum of compassion. To be frank with you, Dr. Grande, one of the problems with your field of psychology is a tendency towards being too quick to analyze the individual with no equal inclination to do the same with the type of society where such problems seem to thrive. Troubled people do need to change themselves, yes, but society is really ripe for a makeover too.

Finally, while I fully agree that low confidence and poor social skills will most definitely contribute to low attractiveness in men — to a great extent, in fact — please understand that it’s difficult to learn social skills and acquire confidence in this area when the physical aspect of your low attractiveness — whatever the source of that factor may be — has caused you to have so many failures in this area over the course of many, many years. Seeing such an interaction going any way other than south becomes as unusual as the expectation of witnessing a solar eclipse.

Self-improvement is important, as you say, but it’s not easy to obtain it when you have so much going against you, including society’s unwillingness to understand, sympathize, and support you. It’s something that incels currently need to do almost entirely on their own. This is unfortunate because certain online communities catering to this demographic are obviously not positive places for men to get objective help, since participants in these cyber-locales have often not yet learned to make peace with this unlucky set of cards they were dealt and are more interested in venting than anything else (much like the SJWs that hate them so much).

Thank you again for striving to understand this phenomenon.